Gorean Living User Forums • View topic - Angering the dom means you forfeit limits and consent

From IRC chat

This was from a time period when I was under discipline "as a slave" from the dom I was then serving, hence the nick and the calling him Master and shit.

So, dude - we'll call him BigDumbDom, BDD for short - comes into the chat room and proceeds to start perving profiles left and right and PMing all the girls, without bothering to ask in room. It is in the rules that excessive viewing without participating in the chat and PMing without asking are not allowed. That room ALSO has a rule that one must view a profile and take heed of stated limits before requesting service.

Several complaints crop up immediately, though there happen to be no Ops in the room not AFK at the moment. Girls are uncomfortable. I soon find out why when he messages me.

My thoughts, as always, in (parenthesised italics).

Session Start: Wed Sep 06 09:26:51 2017

[09:26.51] <BDD> hi dear

(Oh.. and my linked profile also says to NOT call me pet names if we don't have that kind of established dynamic)

[09:26.51] ->> BDD is on: #Gorean_Living #submissive_slave_auction #women_are_property_of_men #BDSM #chat #Surrendered^Service

[09:26.51] ->> BDD using XxXChatters.Com (XxXChatters.Com)

[09:27.02] <BDD> I think we have chatted a bit before

[09:27.07] <teapot> Perhaps

[09:27.20] <BDD> are you a slave?

[09:27.26] <teapot> Not under this nick though, I believe.

[09:27.30] <teapot> No Master.

[09:27.39] <BDD> do you provide service?

[09:28.15] <teapot> Yes Master. There is even a list in my profile in SS.

[09:28.24] <BDD> let me look again

[09:28.26] <BDD> brb

[09:28.34] * teapot nods

[09:29.07] <BDD> quite detailed

[09:29.24] <teapot> Yes Master. I try to be as thorough as I can.

[09:29.27] <BDD> so you don't scene or roleplay?

[09:29.34] <teapot> I do scene.

[09:29.41] <teapot> Just not for pretend.

[09:29.41] <BDD> oh ok

[09:29.52] <BDD> so would you like to now?

[09:30.23] <teapot> Like to what, Master?

[09:30.34] <BDD> scene

[09:30.44] <BDD> as in service me

[09:31.19] <teapot> How would girl do that

[09:31.24] <teapot> ?

[09:32.05] <BDD> one sec hon

(Grrrr! Another pet name!)

[09:32.17] <teapot> Is there some service you desire that can be done for real in a chat environment?

[09:32.39] <BDD> you mean here in pm between you and I?

[09:32.47] <teapot> Or at all.

[09:32.54] <teapot> Somehing that isn't pretend.

[09:33.18] <BDD> do you have privacy where you are now?

[09:33.40] <teapot> yes Master.

[09:33.55] <BDD> do you voice chat?

[09:34.32] <teapot> Not with strangers, Master.

[09:34.38] <BDD> I understand

[09:34.44] <BDD> my shorts are off now

[09:34.49] <BDD> naked except a t shirt

(Does he have ANY clue what a pathetic visual that creates?? Like an old, sad, Winnie the Pooh)

[09:35.12] <teapot> Umm.. Nice for you?

[09:35.25] <BDD> are your panties iff

[09:35.26] <BDD> off

[09:35.36] <teapot> They are not.

(What part of no sexual service does he not get? It's clear in the profile!)

[09:35.50] <BDD> do you make yourself orgasm very often?

[09:36.14] <teapot> Not lately, no.

[09:36.26] <BDD> you need one then- at least one yes?

[09:37.05] <BDD> Is there some service you desire that can be done for real in a chat environment?

[09:37.14] <BDD> trying to figure out how to answer

[09:38.02] <BDD> still there?

[09:38.24] <teapot> Well, several examples are given in my profile to give an idea. I have served and been served in quite a number of real ways long distance/online.

[09:39.01] <teapot> There are many useful services which do not require proximity.

[09:39.24] <BDD> yes but your profile says no cybersex

[09:39.33] <teapot> That is correct.

[09:39.37] <BDD> so help me understand what we can do

[09:40.11] <teapot> Phone

(I had a phone call at that moment. OOPS! I hit enter before his question popped up.)

[09:40.19] <BDD> can you now?

[09:41.38] <BDD> would love to talk to you and hear you orgasm

[09:42.43] <BDD> ?

[09:43.28] <BDD> still with me?

[09:45.00] <BDD> where did you go hon

[09:51.29] <teapot> On the phone

[09:51.32] <teapot> I said.

[09:51.38] <BDD> oh I misunderstood you

[09:54.17] <teapot> She's STILL talking.

[09:54.28] <BDD> omg!

[09:55.17] <teapot> This person can take the simplest little thing that would take a normal person 30 seconds and turn it into a 30+ minute conversation!

[09:55.27] <BDD> lol

[09:55.40] <BDD> make an excuse to get off the phone

[09:55.47] <teapot> Can't

[09:56.17] <teapot> It's the landlady. Who lives on site right next to me. So have to maintain good relations.

[09:56.59] <BDD> I could have made you orgasm 3 times by now!

(Cause he's such a special snowflake)

[09:58.13] * teapot thinks that may not be the case.

[09:58.20] <BDD> lol

[09:58.29] <BDD> you're a crock pot are you?

[09:58.32] <BDD> slow cooker?

[09:58.42] <teapot> Not at all Master.

(No, I'm just not into cybering, especially with random idiots in the internet)

[09:59.27] <BDD> so when you said this

[09:59.30] <BDD> <BDD> so help me understand what we can do[11:40:12] <teapot> Phone

[09:59.39] <teapot> Oh. I see.

[09:59.40] <BDD> I thought you meant WE can phone

[10:00.25] * teapot apologises for the confusion.

[10:00.40] <BDD> its ok, you did have me excited though

[10:00.49] <teapot> I don't give out my phone number to strangers.

[10:01.09] <BDD> I am sure you don't honey

[10:01.19] <BDD> I just read it wrong

[10:01.29] <teapot> So.. regarding the question you asked...

[10:01.32] <BDD> yes?

[10:02.58] <teapot> Were you asking what kinds of practical service could be done long distance, or were you asking how we could engage in some kind of sexual interaction?

[10:03.10] <BDD> both yes

[10:03.17] <teapot> I see.

[10:04.15] <teapot> So, I take it master chooses to override a girl's begging because it conflicts with his desires?

[10:04.39] <BDD> what are you begging for?

[10:05.09] <teapot> In the service section of the profile...

[10:05.32] <teapot> Conversation, answering questions, doing research, proofreading or editing things, games, and any other sort of real service which may be possible in an online venue. She begs to be excused from RP serves (pretending to serve imaginary food/drink) and sexual service, please.

(Oh look, he pasted it too. How can his and my understanding of what those words mean be so different!?)

[10:05.44] <BDD> Service: Conversation, answering questions, doing research, proofreading or editing things, games, and any other sort of real service which may be possible in an online venue. She begs to be excused from RP serves (pretending to serve imaginary food/drink) and sexual service, please

( Cybersex is also listed under the limits section.)

[10:06.12] <BDD> yes I suppose you are correct, I am conflicted with you

[10:07.13] <BDD> is it possible you will modify your service?

[10:07.21] * teapot begs forgiveness if she has displeased Master.

[10:07.36] <BDD> oh I still seek to be pleased dear

[10:07.56] <teapot> If she must.

[10:08.14] <BDD> is that a yes?

[10:08.43] <teapot> Yes Master, if you insist.

[10:08.58] <BDD> no I only want it if you are eager to do it

[10:09.30] * teapot cannot feign eagerness, as that would be a lie, and she is not permitted to lie.

[10:09.41] <BDD> will you resent me?

[10:10.45] <BDD> if I insist I mean

(REALLY dude? Seriously??)

[10:10.47] * teapot is a little confused as to why that, of all things, would matter.

[10:11.09] <BDD> because I want this to not be a one time thing and would like to get to know you better

(Cause that's totally going to happen going about it this way!)

[10:12.23] <teapot> Surely, if the desires and preferences of a girl are of no import, any inner resentment would be eaqually or more unimportant.

[10:12.52] <BDD> I see

[10:13.12] <BDD> I think you should perhaps edit your profile some

[10:13.36] <BDD> adjust your desires and preferences then

[10:13.51] <BDD> say that you are willing to experiment

(Yeah. That's it! The way to fix the desires and limits problem is for me to change them to suit him!)

[10:14.34] <teapot> This girl highly doubts that she will suddenly discover that she is aroused by cyber or phone sex, after 30 years of it doing absolutely nothing for her, ever.

(Cue magic peen)

[10:14.55] <BDD> that my dear is because you have never done it with me

(TaDaaa!)

[10:15.45] * teapot is rendered speechless

[10:15.49] <BDD> lol

[10:16.24] <BDD> so you are willing to perform service to me anyway?

[10:17.58] * teapot is surprised he doesn't simply go after some easier game

[10:18.15] <BDD> where would the challenge be in that?

[10:18.23] <teapot> Of course.

(Why go after someone who is totally willing and wants to cyber with random dudebros when you can try to force yourself on someone unwilling?)

[10:18.40] <BDD> <<pursues you

[10:19.39] <BDD> you didnt answer my last question

[10:20.24] <BDD> so you are willing to perform service to me anyway?

[10:20.33] * teapot was also trying to keep up with the room.

[10:20.40] <BDD> yes I see

[10:20.57] <BDD> is the room of more importance right now

[10:21.37] <teapot> The rules require girls not actively serving to greet and participate in conversation

[10:21.49] <BDD> you mean in gorean living?

[10:22.00] <BDD> then place yourself in service to me now

[10:22.02] <teapot> No. In Surrendered Service.

[10:22.15] <teapot> GL is not a RP room

[10:22.37] <BDD> then place yourself in service to me now in SS

[10:22.51] <teapot> Yes

[10:22.55] <teapot> Yes Master

[10:23.48] <BDD> waiting

[10:24.10] <BDD> better

[10:24.30] <BDD> I didn't realize I needed to tell you to do that

[10:24.32] <teapot> It's difficult to type well with wrist braces on both hands

[10:24.41] <BDD> you have carpal tunnel?

[10:25.30] <teapot> Well, considering you didn't request this girl's service in the room, and GL has no "serving" in that way, why would she have marked in service there?

[10:25.59] <BDD> I see so in SS I need to request that first?

[10:26.08] <BDD> or tell you in pm?

[10:26.41] <teapot> That is generally the custom to at least start off in channel, Yes Master.

[10:26.54] <teapot> This girl doesn't remember if it is actually in the rules

(I checked later. It is. Plain as day.)

[10:26.55] <BDD> ok- I am still learning

[10:27.26] <BDD> do you desire to pleasure me now?

[10:28.41] <teapot> Does Master desire the "correct" stock answer or girl's opinion?

[10:30.10] <BDD> we will continue this when I return- I must leave to go get a tire put on my truck now so will release you for now.

[10:30.15] <BDD> when I return come back to me

[10:30.26] <BDD> agreed?

[10:30.29] <teapot> Yes Master.

[10:30.32] <BDD> good

[10:30.43] <BDD> and think more about your willingness

(Sure dude)

[10:31.20] * BDD (xxxchat@xchat-7BC5909F.dhcp.lnbh.ca.charter.com) Quit (Read error)

(So, then, armed with a "full confession", as it were, which none of the other girls were equipped to collect, because they were too shaken up and unsure, I provided the log to the recently returned Op and the room owner, with the only comment being that they may wish to view it. They promptly banned the dude for excessive complaints, PMing without permission, and trying to pressure girls against their will. He was not happy when he came back!)

[12:23.24] <BDD> teapot can we talk

[12:23.57] <teapot> One moment please, Master

[12:25.56] <BDD> ok waiting

[12:26.46] <teapot> She was tasked to start a topic, and now is answering questions.

[12:27.11] <BDD> ok can you tell me who the op is in SS?

[12:29.00] <teapot> There are several, Master.

[12:29.13] <teapot> Do you mean the owner?

[12:35.01] <BDD> yes whoever is in there now

[12:35.18] <BDD> I cant get in the room now for some reason

[12:35.18] ->> BDD is on: #women_are_property_of_men #submissive_slave_auction #roleplay #BDSM #Gorean_Living #chat

[12:35.24] <BDD> or the library

[12:35.40] <teapot> The owner of SS is [Owner's Name].

[12:36.05] <BDD> you didnt complain about me did you?

[12:36.55] <BDD> did you?

[12:37.43] * teapot did not complain, though apparently several others did.

[12:37.56] <BDD> how do you know that?

[12:38.20] <BDD> be honest with me

[12:38.23] <teapot> This girl just provided a copy of the PM log, without comment either way.

[12:38.33] <BDD> of the one between you and I?

[12:38.44] <teapot> Because that is what the ban notice said when it came up in the room

[12:38.48] <teapot> Yes Master.

[12:38.53] <BDD> you got me banned!

[12:38.58] <teapot> No Master.

[12:39.01] <BDD> yes

[12:39.19] <BDD> you had no right to copy our pm log

[12:39.37] <teapot> Your actions and the resulting multiple complaints from other girls got you banned.

[12:40.04] <BDD> you need to take responsibility for what you did

[12:40.09] <teapot> I am.

[12:40.19] <BDD> you did that intentionallt

[12:40.25] <BDD> and I am pissed

[12:40.31] <teapot> I provided a copy of the PM log to an op. I did not complain.

[12:40.37] <BDD> well why?

[12:40.40] <BDD> what the fuck for?

[12:40.58] <BDD> how dare you

[12:41.31] <BDD> what op did you send it to

[12:41.53] * teapot wasn't sure if it actually merited a complaint, and figured it should be left up to the free men Ops to decide, rather than presume to complain about a free man.

[12:42.09] <BDD> cut the BS

[12:42.10] <teapot> Master [Op's nick].

[12:42.29] <BDD> is he in there now

[12:42.37] <teapot> What BS Master? This girl is speaking the truth. She did not complain about you.

[12:42.48] <teapot> Yes Master. He is.

[12:42.59] <BDD> how exactly is his name spelled

[12:43.32] <teapot> [Op's nick]

(At this point, I gave the Op in question a heads up that he was about to get an irate PM, which he did, and he thanked me and asked me to provide the log from the second echange when done as well. I complied happily)

[12:44.51] <BDD> you knew by posting that what would happen

[12:45.01] <BDD> and that was wrong of you

[12:45.26] <teapot> Master, are you saying that it would have been obvious to anyone that an Op seeing that PM log would ban you?

[12:45.46] <BDD> no but why would you do that?

(I mean yeah, but I can't admit that so I'll just spout nonsense)

[12:45.56] <BDD> thats just mean

(Waaahhhh! Bad meanie subbie!)

[12:46.12] <teapot> So.. How can you say she knew it would happen if it wasn't obvious?

[12:46.21] <BDD> WHY

[12:46.29] <BDD> DID YOU DO THAT

[12:47.08] <teapot> If she had been in the wrong, Master [Op's nick] would have simply told her to deal with it herself and serve you properly.

[12:47.20] * teapot already told you Master.

[12:47.49] <teapot> Because she wasn't sure if she was baulking unduly.

[12:47.58] <BDD> girl

[12:48.11] <BDD> you failed me

(Oh look! More manipulation tactics!)

[12:48.49] <teapot> How so, Master?

[12:49.02] <BDD> you breached my trust in you

(You put that much trust in some random chick on the internet? Wow dude! That wasn't too bright, was it?)

[12:49.11] <BDD> and shared a conversation between us

[12:49.22] <BDD> that was no one elses business

[12:49.40] <teapot> Girl wanted to know if she was being unreasonable or not properly submissive by not wanting to serve you in ways that make her uncomfortable.

(OK.. That may have been fudging a little bit...)

[12:50.52] <teapot> There was no personally identifying information or anything, Master.

[12:51.28] <BDD> stop talking in 3rd person

[12:51.39] <teapot> Yes Master.

[12:52.06] <BDD> you should be punished

[12:52.46] * teapot notes that it is very difficult to refrain from 3rd person when in trouble, since it was trained in very well.

[12:53.01] <BDD> well refrain now

[12:53.13] <BDD> you have angered me

[12:53.14] <teapot> Yes Master.

[12:53.33] <teapot> I beg forgiveness for having angered you Master.

[12:55.34] <BDD> I will consider it if you go talk to [Op's nick] on my behalf and tell him you were wrong

(BAAAHAHAHAAAA! Who didn't see that coming?)

[12:55.48] <teapot> Wrong how, Master?

[12:56.24] <BDD> wrong in sending a confidential discussion to him

[12:57.23] <BDD> your begging does not seem sincere to me

[12:57.38] <teapot> I'm not sure that it was actually wrong, Master, so I am having difficulty.

[12:57.45] <teapot> I am not permitted to lie.

[12:58.14] <BDD> how will I know you won't post this or future pm's to others?

[12:58.26] <BDD> how can anyone trust one like you who does that

[12:59.48] <teapot> Those who know me know that I will always do what seems to be the most honest and right thing.

[13:00.36] <teapot> There were issues and the Ops needed to see if the complaints were legitimate.

[13:01.00] <BDD> sit on your knees

[13:01.06] <teapot> Apparently, they decided that they were, based on your words.

[13:01.25] <BDD> SIT on your knees

[13:01.42] <teapot> If I do that Master, I won't be able to see over the desk to continue conversing with you very well.

(I didn't bother to also point out that it is physically impossible to sit on my own knees without resorting to dismemberment)

[13:01.49] <teapot> Do you still wish me to kneel.

[13:01.52] <BDD> yes

[13:02.58] <teapot> Yes Master.

[13:03.08] * teapot is kneeling

[13:03.13] <BDD> glares at you

(Oh noes! He's cyber glaring at me!)

[13:03.42] * teapot won't be able to maintain a kneel for long though, without doing damage, so will have to shift position soon

[13:03.58] <BDD> perhaps some pain is what you need

[13:04.30] <teapot> Pain is acceptable Master. Injury/joint damage is not.

[13:04.31] <BDD> can I trust you from now on or not

[13:04.53] <BDD> yes or no

[13:04.56] <teapot> You can trust me to be absolutely honest and to do what is right, Master.

[13:05.22] <BDD> what is your first name

[13:05.38] <teapot> Khaos, Master

[13:05.42] <BDD> what?

[13:06.02] * teapot 's first name is Khaos.

[13:06.04] <BDD> your Khaos?

[13:06.14] <teapot> Yes Master.

[13:06.23] <BDD> the same one I've known for some time?

[13:06.52] * teapot is going to have to shift position Master. Do you prefer able or unable to continue typing?

[13:06.58] <BDD> able

[13:07.15] <teapot> Yes Master.

[13:07.28] * teapot sits back in the chair where she can type properly

[13:07.35] <BDD> the same one I've known for some time?

[13:08.41] <BDD> well?

[13:08.50] <teapot> I am not sure that I could honestly say you have "known" me much at all Master. To be clear, this is not the free man named Khaos who has been on this server.. This is Khaos WolfKat.

[13:09.09] <BDD> ok so you are a different Khaos then

[13:09.40] * teapot doesn't think the male Khaos would be pretending to be a girl.

[13:09.46] <BDD> you are free to go, I won't bother you again

[13:09.52] <BDD> too difficult

(Translation: made his weenie deflate)

[13:09.56] <teapot> Yes Master. Thank you Master.

(12 minutes later)

[13:21.39] <BDD> not happy with you still

(That was a short-lived flounce!)

[13:21.59] * teapot understands

[13:22.16] <BDD> do you even care

[13:22.52] <teapot> Certainly, Master, however, I am unable to force the free to change their actions, even if it were my place to do so.

[13:23.07] <teapot> There is little I can do.

(Clearly, he doesn't get I'm referring to HIM, mainly, not just the Ops.)

[13:23.21] <BDD> you can work to make ammends to me

[13:24.30] <BDD> as my slave now

[13:24.39] <teapot> I beg your pardon Master?

[13:26.24] <teapot> I do not think I would care to be owned by a stranger, Master.

[13:34.30] <BDD> yet ammends you must make

[13:34.46] <teapot> Yes Master.

[13:35.10] <BDD> so how will you

[13:35.27] <teapot> I don't know Master.

[13:35.35] <BDD> think about it

[13:35.39] <BDD> this won't just go away

[13:35.44] <teapot> I really can't think of anything appropriate.

[13:35.50] <BDD> try harder

[13:36.05] <teapot> And I am still not clear on exactly what I actually did wrong, other than failing to be pleasing.

[13:36.32] <BDD> try breaching my trust in you and angering me

[13:36.39] <BDD> and going around me back

(Yessss! FEEEL the guilt! Feel EEET! Why isn't this working??)

[13:37.18] <teapot> There was no agreement in place to keep the conversation secret, Master.

[13:37.36] <BDD> shouldnt have to be

[13:37.46] <BDD> its called courtesy

[13:37.49] <BDD> and respect

[13:38.51] <BDD> you fucked up

[13:38.57] <BDD> so own it

[13:39.11] <teapot> Ops have the right to logs that are relevant to their rooms, Master.

[13:39.29] <teapot> I absolutely own my actions.

[13:40.49] <BDD> we'll see

[13:42.24] <teapot> Ops outrank regular users. This is not something over which I have control.

[13:43.57] <BDD> stop making BS excuses

[13:45.16] <teapot> I do not believe they are BS, Master, however, if you have no desire to hear my reasoning, I will stop offering such.

[13:45.29] <BDD> no

[13:45.34] <BDD> you will make ammends

[13:46.00] <teapot> If I am reasonably able, Master.

[13:46.22] <BDD> you are able

[13:46.34] <BDD> you just need to be willing

WARNING..

(Things may get a bit triggery for some below. Stop here if you're in a fragile mindset.)

.

---

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---

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[13:47.30] <teapot> I am willing to do what is reasonable and not a limit.

[13:47.38] <BDD> too late for that

(Did he really just say that? Yes, yes he did! HOLY moly!)

[13:48.39] <teapot> Too late for what, exactly, Master?

[13:49.10] <teapot> Are you saying there is a point at which a submissive woman's limits expire?

[13:49.30] <BDD> I am saying that they changed when you fucked up

[13:49.48] <teapot> My limits changed at your whim?

[13:50.02] <teapot> How does that work if you do not own me, Master?

[13:50.40] <BDD> open your mind

[13:50.58] <teapot> My mind is open.

[13:51.14] <BDD> then open your legs

[13:51.28] <teapot> It was my understanding that the only person who has a right to change someone's limits is that person or that person's owner.

[13:51.41] <teapot> OK. Legs are open.

(They were. Cause I was sitting with my feet on a stool under the desk to be comfy)

[13:52.02] <BDD> is your pussy bare

[13:52.07] <teapot> No Master.

[13:52.33] <BDD> do you have privacy now where you are

[13:53.25] <BDD> ?

[13:54.00] <teapot> I do, however, I am still not going to engage in cyber with you, or anyone, Master, as that is a clearly stated limit.

[13:54.53] <BDD> you still don't get it

(Yes, I'm TOTALLY the one who isn't "getting it". Uh huh.)

[13:55.04] <teapot> Get what?

[13:55.18] <teapot> The part where my limits are void if I anger you?

[13:55.47] <BDD> that and because you OWE me and must make ammends for your bahavior

(Wow!)

[13:55.52] <BDD> behavior

[13:56.57] <teapot> Hmm.. Knowing that limits will only be respected as long as the master is happy seems pretty scary.

[13:57.15] <teapot> And definitely not very consensual.

[13:57.34] <BDD> you threw consentual away when you fucked up

(That's not holy blankity blank red flag rapey at ALL!)

[13:58.25] <BDD> there are consequences for bad decisions

(Yes - yes there are, and you are definitely going to learn that in spades today!)

[13:59.08] * teapot was never taught that. She thought that consent was always absolutely required, no matter what.

[14:04.17] <BDD> well you have more to learn

[14:05.43] <teapot> What good are limits if they can just be taken away whenever someone feels like it?

[14:06.25] <BDD> I am not taking them away

[14:06.35] <BDD> you forfeited some by your actions

[14:06.54] * teapot doesn't think that's the way it works.

[14:07.00] <BDD> it is now

[14:07.35] * teapot thinks she should ask about that as a topic in the room to see if anyone else has heard of this rule

[14:07.48] <teapot> Without mentioning any names, of course.

(LOL. Then I did exactly that.)

[14:07.55] <BDD> see there you go again

[14:09.39] <teapot> Do you think it is wise or safe for a girl to rely only on the word of one person she doesn't know about what the BDSM rules are, Master?

[14:10.31] <BDD> I think you need to stop worrying so much about what others think and focus on me

[14:12.10] <BDD> your new owner

[14:12.33] * teapot doesn't remember consenting to be owned

[14:18.23] <teapot> Seems the consensus amongst everyone else is pretty unanimous, Master. That limits should be respected, period. They can't ALL be wrong, can they?

[14:18.23] ->> BDD :No such nick/channel

(Was it something I said?)

(Oh.. And THEN I sent the entire log to the SERVER Ops, cause holy buggering bongos Batman, this guy is a plague upon the land which must be scourged! If he doesn't already have a couple DV convictions and/or restraining orders against him, I'd be surprised.)

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